Did you know that women are behind some of the most important scientific discoveries? Take a look at our Focus on Tech Women article, part I.
Amazingly, just a couple years ago the International Women’s Day wasn’t really an issue. It seems like former Soviet republics (and just a couple of them) were the only countries which celebrated. This year, the EU parliament decided to highlight the issue of women’s economic empowerment in a series of events.
Meanwhile, tech companies in Ireland are welcoming women from all over the world who made it through senior school and went on to conquer tech University faculties, for a paid Internship.
DTD talked with two female tech interns, Anastasia Semenova, St. Petersburg, SRE internship, SPSU (A.S.) and Anastasia Zhyrkevich, SRE internship, Belarus State University faculty of Applied Maths (A.Z.) about their internship experiences.
Why did you decide to become an engineer?
A.S.- This was my dream from about 9th grade but, frankly speaking, I didn’t believe then that I could do it. I liked Informatics at school very much, but I thought that it was too difficult for me. I was studying in the Social Economics (specialized - editor note) class during the last grades, but then, during the last grade, I decided to follow my dream, pass the exams and enter into University as a programmer… and so I’m here.
It was 11th grade (last grade in the Russian school - e.n.), I was 17, there were not many opportunities in my school - we didn’t have strong Math and Informatics at the school. I realised that I could’ve entered into Math school earlier, but I just didn’t know back then that I needed to do this, I didn’t think about it. If somebody told me, or got me interested in it earlier, maybe I would be a better programmer right now? I feel I could’ve started earlier.
A.Z. - I cannot say that I am really an engineer. I study Math in the University, there’re some Computer Science classes. I was good in Math at school, I took part in Math Olympiad and it just became the habit, why not. I would like to connect my life with IT sphere and time and life will show what will it be, probably it will be programming or just some analytic work and stuff like that, but it will be definitely connected with some work with brains so like you need to make yourself thinking every day and thinking all the time.
From what age did you have Informatics education and did it help you in any way? Tell us a bit about your STEM training. What opportunities did you have at school?
A.S. - I didn’t have enough Informatics at school and it didn’t prevent me from becoming interested in the technologies, starting to do something by myself, to improve my skills in the area. Initially the training was not systematic, I googled some topics and wrote games by myself. Now I am studying at University and following online courses and readings recommended by tutors.
A.Z. - At school I studied Math from when I was very very young, so it was from the beginning, I was supported by teachers, by classmates. It was one of the things that I understood: so, everyone in my class was good at something - someone danced, someone singed songs and I decided that I needed to have a hobby, I needed to have something to devote my life totally, and that appeared to be Maths. Because I was supported by the people around, that appeared to be a style of life.
However, In Belarus, if you are a Math expert you have not so many career opportunities. You can be a Math teacher at the tops, so I considered Computer Science just to get more opportunities and to learn something new.
My school Informatics was very low-level, very easy, probably we need something more interesting, more Algorithmics to prepare people, more teachers. I meen, there shouldn’t be any Informatics like “open the Docs”, because it is boring and useless and all people are aware about all these technologies now.
How useful is the knowledge from university to your current job?
A.S. - The knowledges from University were very useful, I can say, but I think some of the subjects are old-fashioned maybe, and, of course, when you enter University, you should understand that you should work well and hard by yourself, because the University courses are just not enough. For example I took some online courses I was interested in, sometimes I was doing coding by myself.
A.Z. - Math and Computer Science studies may be easier for girls, because girls are more accurate, they are hard working and they quickly understand what is needed from them. When they come to work, sometimes it is hard to rearrange the way of thinking from what was in the University. I used to have a task - and I solved it, sometimes people helped me to do that, but here (in the work environment - e.n.) you need to know a lot, to have a lot of problem solving background. The mindset “I don’t need to have a fixed task, I have certain freedom and I have to figure out how to make it work” helps at work.
Why do you think there’s not so many women in this profession?
A.S. - I think there’re a lot of reasons, I agree with the point that it’s not considered a ‘female profession’, for example when I decided that I want to be a programmer people told me something like ‘it’s not for girls’, even my mom wanted me to choose another profession, because it’s just unusual. But I think this is wrong.
A.Z. - We have 22 guys and 8 girls in my group - not so many, not so few. The answer to the question is the Computer Science needs a lot of time to devote to, it needs a lot of thought to devote to, it needs a lot of you and sometimes women devote their life to bringing up children, to family and it’s really hard to combine it together, so for me it’s really a question.
So, let’s say you’ll have to choose between your future family and your job… Would you be putting your husband’s career before yours?
A.S. - There should be work-life balance. I am not the person who wants to choose between the main parts of my life, I want to enjoy both parts.
I hope there always will be an opportunity to build the career for both of us, I suppose when it’s time to have children, it could be discussed and If you can earn enough money - you could spend with children first years and then you can go back.
A.Z. - I cannot solve it right now in my head. Now I am like “ok it’s time for career let’s do that”, I don’t have a family. But yes, I still don’t know how to combine all of these. It’s really tough work and you can be burned at work but when you come home your children need your warmth, your attention and you cannot give all of these to them because you are devastated , you have brought your everything to work… yeah it can be hard!
When you encounter a difficult task, do you think it’s easier for you to ask your male colleagues for help because you are female or do you think it would be easier if you were a male?
A.S. - I usually ask a question to a person who is “in the theme”, I don’t think it’s gender-depending, I think it’s more skill-depending.
A.Z. - The company, I think, teached me to ask a lot of stupid questions. For me it works that I have that one person in the team that I can understand, we’re thinking in the same way and I know that he can redirect or he can just answer me these stupid questions and he won’t think anything. I have not a lot of people but a few of them I ask for help and yes, I am not shy about asking this help. I consider myself newer here in this sphere not because I am a woman, I am just newer and I am young and that’s all.
In terms of expectations from you - do you feel that your team/your colleagues expect less from you because of your gender, or more?
A.S. - I don’t know, maybe I feel that if you are a girl you could be expected to do less. I always want to do everything on the top, so I don’t want to use this to work bad.
A.Z. - I don’t know probably they expect the same things, probably the differences only start when you have dinners, when you have social events, and probably there we can see these differences - we spend time in different ways. There are differences only outside the work, but I don’t feel any differences between the people in the team
What advice can you give to the parents of a girl who decided that she wants to be an engineer?
A.S. - I think, firstly, to encourage the decision, and then help to find people who are interested in technologies too, it could be different kinds of centres, to help find a good University where students like what they doing and encourage to cope with difficulties, because it’s a profession where you need to overcome yourself. They should also help with searching for places where teachers would help.
A.Z. - But… I don’t see the differences. Just to give freedom to your children, they will understand by themselves, when to make it easier or harder. Just believe in your children and support them. I appreciate my parent’s support. They are happy with every step I made, at every exam I passed, at every internship, at every everything, even small victories! I really love my mom and I know for sure, that I am who I am only because of her.
A couple of words to the girls who are thinking about starting this path.
A.S.- Just start and don’t give up.
I hope there will be more women in this profession in the future years. There are a lot of improvements, I see that it is encouraged by many companies and it really makes me think that the profession needs us and it’s good that we’re here.
A.Z. - Of course, not to be afraid, even just to throw away this thought that you are different. You know, I think this question appeared from nothing, like, I don’t know why but I don’t feel the differences. Don’t be afraid and do your job well.
The main recourse for me is people, so be aware of conferences, be aware of people who work in the industry. It’s good to have friends from this sphere and to talk to them - they are really interested to tell about they work, the spheres they are good at, and they will tell you a lot - that was my path, talking to people. Be aware on any competitions - have something on your resume. In 2015, when the Girls’ Math Olympiad was held up in Minsk, I was in the team of organisers.
I am mostly self-studying, I have some friends who took part in Programming competitions and we are consulting each other.
Did you know that Math Olympiads have limited number of candidates allowed from each country, only 4 representatives per team? It's really hard to get into the Math Olympiad team if you are a girl. The Girls' Math Olympiad was launched in 2012. Now, about twenty countries from Europe and ten countries from all over the world take part in this competition.
While things are definitely moving in the right direction, EU parliament still cannot say women and men are equal. Women are still often paid less, and as we all seen a couple of days ago, it’s still a matter of argument! In many parts of the world women are subject to violence and abuse or lack any form of education. That is what the International Women’s Day about - celebrating rights where they are available and recognising that there’s much more to be done!
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